Value of Sharing Works [Archive] - Artist Forum

: Value of Sharing Works


TerryCurley
08-23-2015, 03:57 PM
I've been listening to videos on art lately and something Stephan Bauman said has been resonating in my brain. I'm paraphrasing but he said something like we can not grow in art unless we show our art to others and get feed back or at least see our work as compared to others doing similar things. That keeps ringing in my ears and it is so true. How can you improve if you don't know you are not as good as you could be.

That's where this forum and other sites like Our Art Corner is so valuable for growing. Facebook is great but your friends on facebook are going to say it's wonderful even if it isn't. That is not helpful.

Shall we discuss this?

just
08-23-2015, 04:15 PM
...your friends on facebook are going to say it's wonderful even if it isn't. That is not helpful.



That is what happens here too.

TerryCurley
08-23-2015, 04:38 PM
That is what happens here too.

Yes to some degree I know you are right. I think it happens like that until people feel comfortable with each other and know how the other person is going to react to criticism. Will they see it as an affront on their abilities or an honest attempt to be helpful. A lot of that is how the criticism is given. You can say "those teeth are very amateurish" (not helpful) or you can say "I think you might want to put the gleam only on the first two teeth and darken the others) (helpful).

Some people are not looking for real criticism only compliments. Those are the people that will get hurt by a break down of flaws in the picture. And every picture will have flaws. We have all had our feelings hurt if we are honest with ourselves, because we are expecting kudos instead of having flaws pointed out. Not getting the praise that you are expecting will cause disappointment. Also we can change from day to day depending on moods and other happenings in life. A disappointment in a person that is already depressed is devastating and a disappointment for someone that is going to Disneyland the next day is pretty much overlooked.

I think the bottom line is when people are comfortable and know they are not going to be embarrassed or belittled they are more willing to share their work.

Melody Jeoulex
08-23-2015, 06:36 PM
somehow guilty with the topic :/ There are times that I just dunno the right words or right techniques to share with the artist even though I see some flaws with his/her work (step aside in criticizing the first timers)...it's just that sometimes I don't make sense at all..><..staying away from any arguments...
.I just learned to do better for my art by self-criticism, comparing mine with others and just like yours TerryCurley , whenever I don't receive a WOW from my boyfriend....I try again....I would do a long hour research for some techniques from professionals just so I can finish the picture like how I would want it to be..the exact (but not 100%) image in my mind..

Susan Mulno
08-24-2015, 12:10 PM
One of the things I have appreciated about this forum from the start is your ability to use constructive criticism, of course not everyone is good at it and not everyone sees the flaws that could be mentioned (or as Luna pointed out, are too shy to suggest them) but I for one have received helpful hints and pointers that do improve my work over all.

TerryCurley also touched on the fact that over time we learn who wants good honest appraisal and who wants us to pet their ego.

Most of the time I would say it is in the delivery, not the criticism itself.

TerryCurley
08-24-2015, 12:44 PM
I think another issue about giving and receiving criticism is that we are at different levels of development. An advance artist that has been doing it for decades should not evaluate a picture from a newbie artist in the same way that he would expect of himself. Does that make sense? We all have to take this journey one step at a time and a flood of suggestions can be discouraging.

chanda95
08-24-2015, 12:59 PM
That is what happens here too.

Not always. I have gotten ripped on FB for my work and I have seen artwork here ripped pretty hard as well.

In terms of critique and feedback..some of us are more direct in our critiques of others while some of us tend to look at the picture as a whole and try to point out the good and the bad of a piece.

I think either way the point gets across. It depends on the situation.

I like to think about a persons background and where they are at artistically. If somebody has been drawing for many many years and their work is still coming out like that of a complete newbie..well..I gather they aren't interested in improving their work. There have been a few where I have been less than kind (not many but a few). We had a member a few years back where his work was CRAP but he claimed to be better than us all. He also claimed to be some wizard of some high order. I am sure he threw a hex on us. Sorry. Don't come in here with a high and mighty attitude that you are better than us but aren't able to deliver on that.

At any rate, if the person is new at it and is genuinely interested in learning and improving then I see no reason to bash their works. We all started somewhere. I think pointing out the areas they did well while trying to point out areas they need improvement is a wise strategy.

TerryCurley
08-24-2015, 02:38 PM
And you hit on the key to it all Chanda. Pointing out the areas that are done well along with the flaws is so very important. :biggrin:

Hey I have to tell folks that I won a challenge on 'Our Art Corner' WoooHooo!

just
08-24-2015, 03:21 PM
We had a member a few years back where his work was CRAP but he claimed to be better than us all. He also claimed to be some wizard of some high order. I am sure he threw a hex on us.


That is what happened to me. :vs_karate:

karliejaye
08-24-2015, 05:04 PM
I have been really struggling to get constructive criticism with my work, from every avenue I try. Not sure if it is because my work isn't good enough to even critique, if it is because it is sculptural, or if folks are afraid to hurt my feelings (I am, after all, a very new artist). My husband is also an artist, and has helped me quite a bit, but sometimes hearing it from a spouse is NOT appropriate, haha.

Any way, I agree with the need to have your artwork (or ANY work) critiqued for personal/professional growth. Finding a person with both the know-how and the tact to get the point across can be tricky, though!

just
08-24-2015, 05:12 PM
I have been really struggling to get constructive criticism with my work, from every avenue I try. Not sure if it is because my work isn't good enough to even critique, if it is because it is sculptural, or if folks are afraid to hurt my feelings (I am, after all, a very new artist). My husband is also an artist, and has helped me quite a bit, but sometimes hearing it from a spouse is NOT appropriate, haha.

Any way, I agree with the need to have your artwork (or ANY work) critiqued for personal/professional growth. Finding a person with both the know-how and the tact to get the point across can be tricky, though!

I took the liberty to look at your albums. From what I can see, your work is top notch. I would be more constructive but I can't get your pictures to expand.

TerryCurley
08-24-2015, 07:21 PM
I have been really struggling to get constructive criticism with my work, from every avenue I try. Not sure if it is because my work isn't good enough to even critique, if it is because it is sculptural, or if folks are afraid to hurt my feelings (I am, after all, a very new artist). My husband is also an artist, and has helped me quite a bit, but sometimes hearing it from a spouse is NOT appropriate, haha.

Any way, I agree with the need to have your artwork (or ANY work) critiqued for personal/professional growth. Finding a person with both the know-how and the tact to get the point across can be tricky, though!

I think in your case it's because your sculptures are very good. I know that I'm a relative beginner and I actually don't see flaws in the work of those that are more advanced than I am. I think that is the case for a lot of us. It's those people that have been doing it for many years that can spot things that us newbie don't even see. And for me sometimes I don't even see it once it is pointed out. :vs_blush:

patindaytona
08-24-2015, 08:45 PM
Good topic. I've been doing paintings about 7 years and i think i do it alot different than most. I have gotten out paintings that are 5 years old, 6 months old etc. I work on all of them over years. Doing a little this and that each time, so I'd be super sensitive about having critisim on my work. I am very obsessive and never know when to give up when one isn't working out. I punish myself beyond belief because of that (emotionally).
So, everyone is different and you can see that their are many aspects to consider. I never show my work anymore. I used to be on another art site and show them, but haven't in a year or so. This is the first art site other than that, that i just joined. ..getting long, sorry......

patindaytona
08-24-2015, 08:47 PM
Oh, facebook...i hardly ever get any comments on that and their are many "friends". I don't know what they're thinking, i know my work is "pretty good". I do alot of photography also, and then they all comment...??? I think it's just that placecs like that people aren't into paintings and it just doesn't interest them.

Asancta
08-24-2015, 09:51 PM
chanda95 " There have been a few where I have been less than kind (not many but a few). We had a member a few years back where his work was CRAP but he claimed to be better than us all. He also claimed to be some wizard of some high order. I am sure he threw a hex on us. Sorry. Don't come in here with a high and mighty attitude that you are better than us but aren't able to deliver on that":vs_blush::vs_blush:
I think am sort of an expert on forums/groups/FBgroups/games groups/etc and I tell you I've met like dozens of those kind.I think it's an Ego complex...the only way they feel better is by going online and bragging about how big their willy is when in fact you'd need a microscope to see it:vs_smirk: but "wizards" are a special kind of stupid.Oy gutenu :laugh:
patindaytona I am in several artist FB groups and I hardly get any feedback and if I do is very subjective.I also have an artist FB page but again I don't think is of any help at all.Now FB groups tends to be very prejudicious:for ex I noticed that flowers/pets/birdies always get hundrets(am not kidding) of likes while the more abstract works get 10 maybe 20 likes and also I noticed that people tend to look down on the abstract works.On the other hand the abstract artists get their share...I've seen some groups on FAA that do not accept abstract artists that are not fully abstract(that is no human/animal whatever just lines and whatever)and they too look down on the other kind of artists.So here depends WHO is doing the critique ...if it's an oil artists that is more into classic art that is asked to critique some surreal pastel on paper sort of piece then he might get very "nasty" on it even if the piece in itself is a masterpiece.It happened to me many times...people saying "oh acrylics are no good...you should try oils bla bla"

chanda95
08-25-2015, 10:37 AM
chanda95 " There have been a few where I have been less than kind (not many but a few). We had a member a few years back where his work was CRAP but he claimed to be better than us all. He also claimed to be some wizard of some high order. I am sure he threw a hex on us. Sorry. Don't come in here with a high and mighty attitude that you are better than us but aren't able to deliver on that":vs_blush::vs_blush:
I think am sort of an expert on forums/groups/FBgroups/games groups/etc and I tell you I've met like dozens of those kind.I think it's an Ego complex...the only way they feel better is by going online and bragging about how big their willy is when in fact you'd need a microscope to see it:vs_smirk: but "wizards" are a special kind of stupid.Oy gutenu :laugh:


LOL! He was "unique". I honestly have seen a lot of things over the years on forums but he was a first for me. I have never seen somebody so far out in left field before. It was nuts.

patindaytona
08-25-2015, 02:56 PM
Chanda,
It's getting to the point where i'd rather not even post on facebook now. 90 per cent of my frineds are actully my wife's friends (they just see my posts because of that). I take THERE photographs very often. When i post there photos, sure........i get tons of likes, and comments like (oh, you look so good so and so etc), but obviously it's not about how good the artistic photos aspect is. I'm complaining i realize that.
Posting my artwork......a few likes nothing more.

chanda95
08-25-2015, 03:16 PM
Chanda,
It's getting to the point where i'd rather not even post on facebook now. 90 per cent of my frineds are actully my wife's friends (they just see my posts because of that). I take THERE photographs very often. When i post there photos, sure........i get tons of likes, and comments like (oh, you look so good so and so etc), but obviously it's not about how good the artistic photos aspect is. I'm complaining i realize that.
Posting my artwork......a few likes nothing more.

From what I can see your artwork is just incredible. There are a few that I can't see when I click on them. They come up with an invalid link error. To fix that just edit your photo to put in a simple description and they will be available for us to view larger. I think your work deserves more than a few simple likes. I am blessed to have friends who appreciate the work I do both with my art and my photography however I don't think FB is generally a great place to display your work if you are looking for helpful critique..unless you have a bunch of artistic friends..

FanKi
08-25-2015, 08:20 PM
I disagree with you Just.
You can't judge everyone with the same criteria.

If you are a newbie, you know your work is not the best on earth, but is usless to hear it from others. What do you want us to say if we see someone recently started (Maybe as me)? "This is crap. The outlines are wrong. Bad proportions. You should change your shadowing technique cuz it doesn't work good."? Sorry if I'm incorrect, but that's not the way to teach, and even worse, to learn.

Nobody need negative coments, not even a Pro. And let me say, supportive criticism is way too different from negative coments. (As for example, When I reached here I was told to leave outlines if I want to improve, at the same time I was being congratulated by the same person.)

just
08-25-2015, 08:28 PM
I disagree with you Just.
You can't judge everyone with the same criteria.

I never said that Frank.

leighann
08-25-2015, 08:47 PM
Here's my thoughts....I consider myself a novice at sketches and Mandalas. Definitely an amateur at the other mediums I've experimented with. I don't really feel I'm qualified to critique anyone....and don't mind being critiqued myself.

I love praise...don't we all!! :biggrin: I do think you can like/enjoy a piece of art, but also find flaws in it, or things you might have done differently.

I have also posted art on FB, and recently created a page exclusively for my art. Prior to the new page, I did notice a trend to the "likes", but I take it in stride. I'm creating for ME, not everyone else. :vs_love:

FanKi
08-25-2015, 11:19 PM
...your friends on facebook are going to say it's wonderful even if it isn't. That is not helpful.

That is what happens here too.

Sorry Just, that's what I understood.
What you were talking about?

TerryCurley
08-26-2015, 08:03 AM
Here's my thoughts....I consider myself a novice at sketches and Mandalas. Definitely an amateur at the other mediums I've experimented with. I don't really feel I'm qualified to critique anyone....and don't mind being critiqued myself.

I love praise...don't we all!! :biggrin: I do think you can like/enjoy a piece of art, but also find flaws in it, or things you might have done differently.

I have also posted art on FB, and recently created a page exclusively for my art. Prior to the new page, I did notice a trend to the "likes", but I take it in stride. I'm creating for ME, not everyone else. :vs_love:

The good thing about FB is that you are dealing with people who just either like your work or don't. They are not analyzing the technical aspect of it, which is something that is good for this forum because it helps me improve but it isn't everything. I will post on FB and then check how many 'likes' I get. Less than 10 I know the picture sucks, more than 20 it's one of my best.

The extra busy picture I did last week with the yellow roses was technically an abomination. However it was very well received on FB. Which tells me it has appeal above the technical flaws. This is good to know. So I think feedback in different environments is important.

Eddieblz
08-26-2015, 07:25 PM
Back in the early 90's when I walked away from the art business. It was a different world then. If a person wanted to look at artwork you could 1 go to the library or book stores and get books, that would only expose you to the masters. 2 go to college or fair art shows and exhibitions but they were far and few between 3 you could go to galleries and museums and there was also magazines. The art community was a pretty closed community. It seemed mysterious and distant. Most people didn't know where to look even if they wanted to view art When I started to get back involved with art about 3 years ago the internet opened a whole new world of art sharing. It was wonderful. I've had a chance to discus art with artists all over the world and I didn't have to travel to do it.
Now in the old days if you wanted to learn art and didn't trust enough in your own talent you had to go to school. It was the only place to get instruction, techniques, source material a nude model. The only other place for that was a porn magazine or a nudest colony, I wasn't ready for that.
Now there is again the internet, with it's wealth of knowledge and source material. It's absolutely amazing. For those of you that this is all you've known. Don't take it for granted, Embrace it, use it.
Now as for the value. Priceless. As far as critiques go. I'll discuss that in my next post.

TerryCurley
08-26-2015, 07:35 PM
Very well said Eddie. I'm looking forward to your thoughts on critiquing.

Asancta
08-26-2015, 07:51 PM
Back in the early 90's when I walked away from the art business. It was a different world then. If a person wanted to look at artwork you could 1 go to the library or book stores and get books, that would only expose you to the masters. 2 go to college or fair art shows and exhibitions but they were far and few between 3 you could go to galleries and museums and there was also magazines. The art community was a pretty closed community. It seemed mysterious and distant. Most people didn't know where to look even if they wanted to view art When I started to get back involved with art about 3 years ago the internet opened a whole new world of art sharing. It was wonderful. I've had a chance to discus art with artists all over the world and I didn't have to travel to do it.
Now in the old days if you wanted to learn art and didn't trust enough in your own talent you had to go to school. It was the only place to get instruction, techniques, source material a nude model. The only other place for that was a porn magazine or a nudest colony, I wasn't ready for that.
Now there is again the internet, with it's wealth of knowledge and source material. It's absolutely amazing. For those of you that this is all you've known. Don't take it for granted, Embrace it, use it.
Now as for the value. Priceless. As far as critiques go. I'll discuss that in my next post.
I subscribe to what you just said.Back in the days if you were not going to an art school then at least you would try to be the student of an artist(IF he would accept you).Was very hard and this world was exclusive for a "special" caste.Nowdays everything is open and you learn more from the internet rather than from a school(why?simply because on the internet it's not only one particular school-Russian 4 ex-but 100 of them from all over the world and you as a student can get better and better being far more easy today to make your own style.

Rathac
10-02-2015, 10:32 AM
La paix est la mort. Embrassez conflit.

When I view the opinions of others as tools I can use for my own benefit and betterment, instead of viewing them as judgment, it becomes easier to accept criticism of all sorts--even when it comes in demeaning or distasteful ways.

Susan Mulno
10-02-2015, 01:48 PM
La paix est la mort. Embrassez conflit.

When I view the opinions of others as tools I can use for my own benefit and betterment, instead of viewing them as judgment, it becomes easier to accept criticism of all sorts--even when it comes in demeaning or distasteful ways.

Well said!