on "Raw" canvas - Page 2 - Artist Forum
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post #11 of Old 02-03-2017, 07:32 AM
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Beautiful work Tatyana you are gifted for sure, thats the difference how I see it - gifted artists can only be educated in technique the expression is already there.
I visited art college at 16 & showed them my work & they told me "we can't teach you anything".
it didn't make me feel good at all, I was very very sad.
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post #12 of Old 02-03-2017, 01:38 PM
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If it's oils you're using, it will cause the canvas to rot over time. A sad end for such fine work. /Mats
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post #13 of Old 02-04-2017, 02:05 AM
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nice work tatyana, i think its fantastic. dont worry about anyone else, just paint what you want, how you want.
i'm new here, and your the first person i found, just why your question turned into a debate over talent or taught who. seems odd. i would have thought that attitude was a thing for gentlemens clubs and the golf fraternity.
putting asside talent, or taught by a master of essays, your doing a fantastic thing go for it.

oil paint is a great media isnt it, i use it on everything from linen to sacking, but i prefer paper. i use heavy water colour papers, with traditonal woodprimer as a base coat, then i sketch with a mix of wood primer and oil paint, and finish with just the oil paint. the primer is oil based but dries in hours rather than days and speeds up the painting process.
so, enjoy your self.
im going to fill out my user info and sit n wait for the flak.
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post #14 of Old 02-04-2017, 09:40 PM
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Oil based primer (with linseed oil in it) is meant for wood. It will with time destroy cloth or paper. There are today alkyd primers (in which the fatty acids have been neutralized) and acrylic primers that serve to isolate the substrate from the oil paint. However, the traditional way is to isolate with some water-based glue, such as rabbit or fish glue.

One should use a technique that has good permanence, otherwise the colours will begin to change. I own a fine oil painting, made directly on hardboard, that is 60 years old. Chemicals from the hardboard have invaded the paint film and made the colours dull. There is no shine in the colours anymore, so the painting is worthless. What a waste!

For oils, it's better to use canvas paper than watercolor paper. (However, it doesn't matter if it's only a sketch you're doing.) If one likes to paint on just about anything, then one should use acrylic paints, instead.

Mats
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post #15 of Old 02-05-2017, 05:23 AM
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thank you m winther, for your concern.
an argument over the stability of materials? i think ive had that chat with my father and grand father, and both sisters. and i am happy to say "so what?".
the problems of restoration should be of little interest to the painter. yes canvas will rot over time, ive seen oil on canvas from the 1880s rip under its own weight. and water colour papers grow black mold spots.
just paint your heart out with what ever you have on what ever you can find.
i took to useing oil based primer in the 1970s, as an answer to the water based acrylic gesso primers used by canvas supliers. i find oil paint cracks and peals from such a support.
i see a caveman, looking over the shoulder of another, as he draws bison on a cave wall with a lump of charcoal, "it'll never last, you need to use better materials"
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post #16 of Old 02-05-2017, 08:09 AM
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Oil paint can only peel from acrylic gesso ground if the paints contain zinc oxide. It's because the zinc oxide forms soaps (saponins) when reacting with the oil, causing a deterioration of the paint film. Then it can begin to crack and peel off because oils don't form a chemical bond with acrylic. But if there is no zinc oxide in the paint then it's no worry and acrylic gesso is fine. The problem is that many people use titanium white that, more often than not, is mixed with zinc white. I only use such whites when painting on alkyd primer, because oils form a chemical bond with alkyds. Otherwise I use pure titanium (alkyd) or strontium white. Strontium white (Holbein) feels like working with lead white. It is somewhat translucent and not as opaque as titanium. However, it is more expensive.

Of course, many amateur painters say, like you, that it doesn't matter because they don't create masterpieces. But I think it's a matter of principle. The "muse of art" doesn't look kindly to painters who are cheating in this respect. Another perspective is that paintings grow more valuable as they come of age. If I had owned an amateur painting that was 500 years old, then I would cherish it. A painting of my grandmother would also be appreciated. But paintings don't survive that long if one uses inferior technique. The cave painters used the most archival technique known to man; charcoal and ochres on perfectly stable ground and in stable climatic conditions. Had they painted with the best modern oil technique and materials then nothing would have been left today. And they were equally good as Matisse and Picasso.

Mats

(Image from Chauvet cave, here.)
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post #17 of Old 02-05-2017, 08:52 AM
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What do you think of his paintings dear artists.
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post #18 of Old 02-05-2017, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by abt2k15 View Post
i like the many details being very clean and sharp.
Thank you!
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post #19 of Old 02-05-2017, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Winther View Post
If it's oils you're using, it will cause the canvas to rot over time. A sad end for such fine work. /Mats
Mats, I size my "raw" canvases with rabbit skin glue. Like old masters used to do. Years passed, no paint peeling has been recorded, the colors are fresh and brilliant.

I absolutely agree with the concept of no cheating on your muse. I take my art extremely serious. Starting with building my own stretchers, stretching canvases by hand, sizing, experimenting with primers, creating my own painting mediums, researching quality of the paints I use,etc.
Thank you for a valuable info, I learn from everyone, all the time, I do consider myself a beginner painter. I've only been painting in this style for the last few years.

Last edited by TatyanaShurtz; 02-05-2017 at 10:06 AM.
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post #20 of Old 02-05-2017, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel_Robertson View Post
Beautiful work Tatyana you are gifted for sure, thats the difference how I see it - gifted artists can only be educated in technique the expression is already there.
I visited art college at 16 & showed them my work & they told me "we can't teach you anything".
it didn't make me feel good at all, I was very very sad.
Thank you very much. I started painting at 40. When I got into it full time I didn't want to spare any of my precious time anywhere outside of my studio.
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